November 6, 2024

We were doing these stories because we figured out that sharing the direct experiences that we have in some form or another is the most interesting aspect of our conversations. So that’s where the idea came, let’s actually input them as stories in this templated version.

So that’s what we’re experimenting with. The idea is to get it to a point where we have a template that works, and we could then open this group up again to more people, to maybe reboot and figure out together what it is that we want to collect stories about.

So we started off with the joy of not needing to be someone and the original idea was we’re going to write a book together. Now we’re at the stories and we’ve been discussing this a little bit in the background, at the meta level and there are really cool things happening here, which I hope is the reason you keep showing up. So some of the cool things that are happening is this sharing of direct experiences and the not needing to be an authority on anything. I don’t need to have some sort of weird non-dual teacher certification to show up here and talk. It’s all very free. It’s all completely open. And some of you have shared that as well. It’s led to some very interesting group things going on in a good way that I now struggle to articulate, but we’ve articulated them before, so it’s all good.

But still the question is, now what? If we’re going to write something collectively, what is that going to be? If we’re going to have these stories seem to work for sharing, assuming they work for sharing direct experiences, what are we going to do with those? Does it make sense to end this at some point here and then open it up again under a new name so that more people are attracted to this, more people flock in to do something that we can better articulate what it is? Last time I said something like a story slam, a non-dual direct experience slam.

It’s really the sharing of direct experience, not a story, not going into some autobiographical past thing. So, we could create a forum where we share direct experiences in some form. So yeah, these are my very vague and disconnected thoughts with the people who happen to show up as myself today.

I’m not yet on the right track, I think. I have not read the transcripts. Maybe I should do that. If you’re talking about direct sharing of direct experiences, do you mean sharing the direct experience based on those five prompts I have just seen for the first time?

So there are two places where we put them now. That is that story template, and there is the anonymous chat room which opens and closes every week. The story closed as well because I had a timer on it, but you can see it So if you click on the link in the chat, you can still see it, but you won’t be able to create a story, which is fine because it expired just before the session started.

So it’s those five prompts, but in different windows, it’s like in a wizard style.

And so there’s some thinking around this that we use AI to collate the stories on the back end. So they become anonymous. AI kind of embellishes the story or summarizes various stories into one story. So there are various things we can do with that or have AI do that could be interesting as well. But that’s all further options that we would have with this.

Yeah, the idea was first to see if those options, those prompts allow people to write something, and then even as little as possible or as much as they can, and then abstract that as another way of input into the book or whatever the product is. Similarly as these transcripts to some extent have been considered as input too.

And last time I also mentioned there’s this one book by Byron Katie called A Thousand Names for Joy. I think it’s that one where she takes Tao Te Ching verses and describes her direct experience of joy, prompted by these different verses. It’s a different way of prompting. So that is something that we could do. We could get all these people to input their stories based on the prompts we have, or maybe even non-dual verses or some Vedanta, Advaita, verses and get everybody to input stories of direct experience related to that.

So we have many options but I feel like it’s coming to a point where we’ve created something in terms of interaction and how we work together. And we have this story thing, which is not a story, it’s DEs, direct experiences. And now we need to figure out what’s next. Or we don’t. I mean, we don’t have to do anything. We’re free.

So shall we still add stories? Also, will you open it again after this call?

Yeah, we can, of course.

I like the prompts. I guess we can contribute with some stories to that. Yeah. So what we were doing actually now is seeing whether these prompts work for us and whether they are useful, whether they help us share a direct experience. And that seems to be from what has happened so far, the case.

So something interesting that happened when I was going through the prompts was so I remembered, last week, that just follow the prompts, don’t think about it too much, and just try to put down your direct experience. And then what happened is that with each new prompt, I wanted to start a new story. So I had to go back and try to stick to the first storyline. Yeah, so that was that was very interesting for me.

OK, maybe we even need to have just one prompt for a story, maybe even the five is too much.

That’s a good input, that each one is creating a game with multiple answers for a story or different stories. I mean, we can always put them on one page. Then it’s easier to keep the flow. I think it was interesting to separate them and see what that creates as well.

Because I was thinking that we might have different types of these blueprints. There is a Canvas model. There is this wizard. There are different models which we can use. They’re all for inputting. But you tend to produce different outcomes as a result when you are filling it in. So we can as well introduce a full screen with probably three questions and see what that creates. Or change it to a business kind of canvas with boxes. And then you fill each box and it zooms in. I think sometimes the visual way as you interact with it changes the experience of how you input.

And so one other aspect was what’s missing so often in this, in how we talk about the non-dual or whatever we want to call it, is the direct experience part. So it all gets very abstract and very theoretical. And it’s very little about how it is in daily life. This is how it feels, what the experience is like. So that was another reason. And modern examples. So from our daily lives and not fro, a couple of centuries ago.

I will say as well, I’ve shared some of these ideas outside of this conversation. And I think there is really a gap now in how interact with different mediums of content. We dismiss direct experience, or use cases, or case studies. You can frame it however you want based on what kind of language or syntax you use. But now you have LinkedIn and then you can comment. Or a book, you get the book and then the book, that’s it. There is no opportunity to contribute or share. So the idea is to be building, not only to be consuming. Because I think here what we’re doing is on the building and not the consumption.

I think we should talk about the content as well, of the book itself, like right on the joy of not being someone. Yes, I have the feeling that we need to reanimate that, sort of like we’re testing Formula One tires and we’ve done our testing rounds and now we just need to get off the track and put on a new set of tires and then start the race.

That’s a real pit stop. All the adjustments are already tested or not all of them because I still got the red message. But anyway, we will be ready for that and then we can warm up.

So anybody else have any feelings around that right now or are you all just happy to follow my non-existence?

I’m just looking at the prompt. When you say in section one, setting the scene, recall a specific moment when you felt heavily burdened by your sense of self. I was thinking, how do we know we’re heavily burdened by our sense of self? That’s the first thing I kept on thinking. How would I know I’m heavily burdened by my sense of self? It’s raised as that question in my mind. What are the markers here? What’s going on? You asked what was going on externally, what was happening around you, but what was happening internally? So, I know I’m heavily burdened by my sense of self? How would I know that? To understand what are the markers of that? How would I know that I’m heavily burdened by my sense of self? What would give me that impression?

I mean, I kind of get to know, but everyone’s different.

But isn’t that the beauty of it, it is whatever, whatever it is for you in that moment? Because I think if we try to describe it, then we limit it.

But it’s something, isn’t it? Because you’ve raised it. So I’m just trying to think how would you recognise that in yourself? How  would you know if you’re heavily bothered by your sense of self? What would be the indications of

The prompts will be read and experienced by each completely differently, but it’s just to… it’s just the prompt. And I think for me that question is maybe… So what came up for me was just that being constricted and the release. So going through that… feeling.

I think the question, how do we know, takes us away from the directness of the prompt. So, either it works or it doesn’t. I don’t think I even know how to answer that question. But I’m wondering whether it’s necessary to know.

Well, the only reason I’m asking, because the question is, recall a specific moment when you were heavily burdened by a sense of self. So if you don’t know if you were heavily burdened by a sense of self, how can you recall a specific moment? So that made me think, OK, so how do I define when I was heavily burdened by a sense of self? I’m very literal. That’s why I’m just calling it, because you use the term heavily burdened.

And I’m thinking that’s quite a heavy term to me, heavily burdened. I got this impression of like a mind full of negative self-conscious thoughts or a body full of deep anxiety. When I saw that term heavily burdened, that’s what I conjured up in my mind. That kind of sudden trigger of personalized self-conscious anxiety kind of thing. Is that what was in your mind?

I don’t know. I have no idea. Did it bother you when you tried to input the story? Or is it something that’s bothering you now?

It’s not bothering me. I’m just… I just like to explore what I’m looking for.

I think the term heavily burdened was a bit loaded. To me, that seemed to imply it had to be a serious moment. But I mean, it could be just a very mild thing, couldn’t it really, I guess?

What I’m trying to avoid is that we discuss these things theoretically. What might happen if or how somebody might interpret this and look at it. So, for example, did you input a story?

I did. Yeah.

So in that moment, when you had the first prompt, did you have trouble coming up with something due to the language, heavily burdened sense of self? Or did something come up for you?

I’m just curious if you were looking for something. The question I guess I’m getting at, is that the language was quite deliberate. Are you looking for something in yourself when you raised the question?

But in my case, I just used the previous example, which is when I was in my Portuguese class. And I suddenly felt like I’m sitting there, I’m learning Portuguese at the moment, and if anything’s going to trigger anxiety, this is super hard. I’m sitting there trying to learn Portuguese thinking, the teacher’s talking Portuguese, and I sometimes find it hard to follow. So then, it triggers me a little bit sometimes. But it wasn’t like heavily bad, but you know, if you mean by triggering some self-consciousness, that’s how I mean, that’s how I define it. The markers would be, as you say, being contracted and then maybe occasional self-conscious thought floating around and things like that. Yeah.

So for me, the test of these prompts is do they prompt something? Do they cause you to come up with, cause the mind to come up with something to input? So if you say, look, I wanted to put something in there, but I was so confused by the words heavily burdened that nothing came up for me. That’s a different message.

In that particular experience, to walk you through it, I would be conscious of a thought. Suddenly I’d have a feeling and then there would be some kind of thought about a person. That would be an indication or a marker. Yes. Being a sense of self.

That’s how it is for you. Somebody else responding to this prompt would have something totally different. Yeah. Which is exactly how we want it.

It might be then interesting to hear what other markers there are, because that’s interesting to me. For me, the sense of self comes through feelings and thoughts, irrational feelings and thoughts. It’d be interesting to hear how other people experience their sense of self.

And I think some of these stories will show us that, because from the examples of the sharing of the direct experience, we will see how it feels how different people answer the question, what it feels like to be burdened by their sense of self.

I have one suggestion regarding these prompts. Along with the prompts, can we give a blank page to the reader, writer, so that if they are not comfortable with the prompts, they can write whatever they want, whatever comes up for them.

The anonymous chat room is a completely blank space, right? You can write what you want. But again, this is a different format. I think we can experiment with different formats and allow you to choose. At least in my experience, what I don’t like is too much choice basically adds friction. So too many options is almost as if there is no options. So that’s something as well to test out.

The prompts were good. Of course it differs from user to user, but then if you see that some are not comfortable, then we can give a blank page also.

I just wanted to continue contributing to this project.

Yes, but there must be some reason you enjoy contributing to this project. So what is it that you enjoy?

I enjoy sharing the joy of not needing to be someone.

Thank you. Now we’re getting somewhere.

Okay. So if we want to get this to a next phase, do we need more contributors? And do we need a structure or a format for a book? What kind of ideas come up for you?

Can we have a look what comes out of those stories? I guess they will be quite different and I would be really curious to read other stories. Everyone’s curious to read the stories, but for that we need people to actually write them. And we’re a limited amount of people so we’re not going to be gathering hundreds of stories in the next few weeks.

I think we should move to the chapter thing also. Start a chapter. I mean, they will also have stories, but at least we’ll move to one step.

So do we need incentives? right? So for example, to unlock reading the stories, add a story. There is no place to read all the stories right now, just to be clear. We didn’t create that yet, but I mean, is it an issue of incentives to make it a priority? Because I appreciate as well the energy around it. There is value in reading the stories. And I think the reason we talked about the stories is in the previous session, they were extremely valuable, vulnerable. It was what I enjoyed most about the sessions, outside of me playing and trying to get this working. I found extreme value in them. And I think we touched on topics which frankly I never thought I would be touching on. Like we talked about death in one of them and it got really intimate. That is extremely valuable. Now talking through something is easier than writing it or sometimes vice versa. So we couldn’t get through the hump of the writing and writing is a different way of expressing. So that’s not easy as well. But that’s valuable. I think there aren’t that many groups or places where that could happen, at least in my circles.

So that’s an important point because the reason we were going to these templates also is because we want to move towards writing something. And we have to get from the sharing of the group, which is really valuable and going really well. But the transcripts of that are not a book. That’s just transcripts of people talking. So do we still need to go towards a book, or do we want to expand the opportunity for people to share direct experiences so that we could have DE slams?

We could have online events where we can help people practice with the templates, for example. They get to know what it is. We have some kind of onboarding, some kind of explanation of what it is we’re looking for. We test, we practice with the templates. We have that as the type of thing we’re looking for. And then we have events where people share in that format, live.

You mean where they talk others through their story? Where they tell their story based on that template, maybe of course in their own creative way in that moment, but sharing of direct experiences of the joy of not needing to be someone.

So that’s one thing I see, the other thing is just trying to maybe blow a second life into this group, even though, there’s still always people showing up and wanting to discuss this. But I feel like we can do more with it. Like we’re ready for the next step. I’m just looking for what it is.

Yeah, I would say that for me it would be very rich to start over with the templates because it’s easy for me to record videos or working with videos, talking. It’s very easy. I put content out almost every day, but not writing. So this would be a rich practice. But it would be great to have the opportunity to reset and start with these guidances with the templates and the prompts.

So what if we start a series on sharing direct experiences like a writing workshop. Something like a writing group.

You mean, so we just meet for one hour and we write together or?

I don’t know yet. I’m thinking, I’m downloading as I speak.

So either that or we prepare a story for a meeting with the template, with the prompt, a direct experience, and then we share those in the meeting. We also share about what we do and we share this with others so people can join if they fill in a template beforehand and submit it maybe even so that there’s some kind of … And we do these not every week, but regularly.

If the stories could be shared prior to the meeting, that would be great. And so your ticket of entry is a story submission. Yeah, why not?

But the transcripts are not of any use in the book? Because initially we had thought that whatever will be spoken also will be part of the book as the transcription will be available and it will be edited and it will be suitably put into the book also. Was that initially the idea, and is it not possible?

It was the idea but so far it’s remained at the experimental level because… Transcripts are not very… they would have to be completely rewritten. It’s not like that is a book. For something to share online, we would need to start writing drafts together then. It’s an alternative if we still want to do that and we can also do that at some point.

But then it will be a big task again to rewrite those transcripts into a printable book kind of thing. So that will be a lengthy thing. It could be either writing as you say that it should be a writing project or it could be only this online thing which we share.

And then we build on that. And it was also the insights that emerged that it’s the sharing of direct experience much more than talking about this that is useful. So even if we want to write a book, most of the things that are in the transcripts are people talking about insights. It’s not as juicy. It’s not as interesting. There are libraries filled with these kinds of explanations. What we have uniquely here is the sharing of direct experience.

I think I feel a bit hesitant to say something because I feel that it’s maybe a little bit self-serving. So for me, the online sessions sort of like loosens the tightness for me around the topic. And then after the fact, the writing is when I can relate to it. And that’s why in one story with five prompts, I almost wanted to write five stories because that’s sort of how much came up for me. So the format of having the online sessions with the insights of everyone else and their direct experiences, is extremely valuable to me to then sort of start investigating my own and bringing that to light. I’ve tried to contribute in the anonymous chat and the stories weekly, and I find it very valuable. Even when I do the writing, it’s very joyful to me. I want to do it and while I do it, it’s just magical. I like both.

Thank you for that. So how can we create both and continue to have both and also keep it animated, and moving?

So the way I’m a little bit stuck is explaining it and putting the stories out into the world to get more contributors. So maybe a workshop around how to tell a relatable story on this topic will be amazing for me. So this is also what my mind was serving up to me. “So how do you want me to write the story?” And this is ridiculous. I mean, this is just the expression of life. Everyone does it how he understands the questions. And then we see what we get.

I was just wanting to say one thing that as a next step, we should continue both, but with a chapter. Otherwise, maybe we will keep sharing but not reaching to the first chapter, if it is book we are trying to make.

Yeah, maybe it is a book on storytelling, on direct experience sharing of non-dual joy. So then it is just a book of stories and we figure out the chapters later.

Okay, story, let us number it, whether topic wise or even serial wise. Like we are, we are finished with story one, then story two, something like that. So that we see the steps moving.

If you see those steps, you can tell me what they are.

I have seen some books like the book is titled, stories on something, 100 stories on non-duality, something like that. So that can work once we have the material.

So just something that came up now is how amazing will it be if it is actually just a book with no chapters and no steps and no structure to the stories, because each and every person reads into a story and gets out of the story what they want in that moment.

And what if it’s not even in a chapter, but just a random story, like a direct experience generator, so you can click on it and boom, one of those experiences appears and then you click and it comes up with the next one. So it’s a database. And you can have the story of the day sent to you by email. Or you can just go to your random story. It generates one for you today.

Yes, it sounds good. Structuralist stories. It is a good idea. Because we have already seen a lot of structured books, so this could be a new experiment.

OK. Here’s a tentative idea building on what you just said. We create in December sometime, we do a workshop on direct experience sharing, whatever we call it, speaking and writing, the sharing of the joy, to be determined what that looks like. But we work with the template, we work with the sharing of that. And we try to reach people with that. And then we have the weekly sharing of the stories. We continue with that as well, what we’re doing now. But we reframe this to not just show up and talk, but we prepare a direct experience that we share. And you can write that down beforehand, or it comes in the moment, whatever works for you, but we go around the room and everyone shares a direct experience.

There are some people in the group who have never said anything but they actually also contributed. So maybe still submit the story but you don’t have to share that story in the group if you don’t want to. So we could have the people in the group who show up. If you show up you are willing to share your story. Otherwise, you can contribute via the platform.

So I don’t know what we’re trying to fix here? I think there are a lot of good things here, and they’re valuable. I really loved what you said, creating the space between what we say in the session to create something else is extremely valuable, on a high level. I don’t think everyone needs to contribute because honestly, if we are many people in the same session, not everyone can contribute. We lose the space to dialogue or talk through. So if everyone is telling a story, it will just be a reading session. I think that’s not valuable either. If we want this to be a little bit more dynamic, then it has to have both components.

Then I think what we haven’t solved is how we bring more people into this group. So what I’ve realized, I do a lot of interviews and I do a lot of discussions and I used to not share them. Or I share them when the book is out. And I find it’s very hard to create engagement if we don’t share some things out as well. How do people know that we’re doing something great? And that as well becomes another input which will change the dynamic of what’s happening for us all. So what does that look like? Is it something we need to have as well as an output from each session that could be public and then allows for someone new to come in. And then the onboarding. I think the onboarding is not a problem. I think we should put a little bit of friction on the onboarding. Say, write a story or whatever it is, I think that’s okay. And then we can work through those things a little bit. I think there is something there that we can work with.

But isn’t this like a study? So like an institute that is looking for participants sharing their stories. Based on those stories, I don’t know how many we get, 20, 40, 50. But you can build something out of those stories, even statistically. So maybe we should follow the idea to make this more public. And everyone could do that, everyone in our network knows that we somehow have this non-dual hobby. And why not share this? And it could be a post on LinkedIn, thinking out loud. And altogether we have, I don’t know, more than 100,000 contacts.

Yes. But then we really need to be clear on what it is that we’re looking for and how we’re going to use that and that it’s anonymous and all these different aspects. We need to have a very smooth product to share before we do that, because otherwise it’s just one big question mark for people. What are you doing with my stuff? What am I supposed to write? What’s this for? Are you going to do AI? Yes, we’re going to feed it to AI. So I don’t think it’s as easy as that sounded. It sounded good though.

So, so far we agree on, I think, opening up the group in some form, and in keeping the conversations going. So what I hear from you is that these conversations are valuable but that the mix with the writing is also valuable.

So for me, there’s still some kind of a cut and then a new opening in a new format in the sense that’s more structured, with conversation, writing, conversation, writing, conversation, writing. This should be clear to everybody that those are the rules. So you all go away and if you rejoin, then those are the rules. We converse and we write. Then we can start talking about bringing in new people because we have a clear structure.

So the transcripts include valuable content, but the question is for what purpose? For a book about the joy of not needing to be a someone, my question is exactly what is the value of speaking about that? I’m exaggerating, but the only value so far is the direct experiences that were shared.

So it means for the next session, we can make it a kind of a soft rule that from now onwards, we will be sharing only the direct experience, not explaining it, but sharing what happened with you. Is that what you want?

Yes. But if we just do that, we won’t be able to follow our own rule. Right? We know ourselves. We will start theorizing.

So we can do both. There’s no need to force, to just have a round of reading. We can say for each meeting that we three sharings of direct experience and then we discuss them. And then we have both. Or some format like that that makes sure we have both aspects. I agree that it doesn’t have to be just everybody reads their template. That’s boring.

I think the biggest gap is that writing is part of this, and we need a little bit more structure to include both the writing and the verbal. That’s what we need to fix. I think there is value here. It’s how we combine that writing is a valuable thing to have, and it’s not sufficient to have just the the sessions. The sessions are valuable, but as well, the writing is valuable. So probably we can experiment with different ways of structuring writing. At least practicing the writing, it doesn’t need to be perfect. So don’t over-write whatever comes. We’ve been opening the anonymous room, we can add a blank there, we can add some different formats on the stories. Those prompts are one set, which we created. We can create so many others. That’s not an issue either.

And if you want to propose some prompts, please go ahead. So probably next session, we can focus on that on how can we create a structure that enables the writing and these spoken meeting to work more efficiently. And the purpose will be that as an outcome we can onboard others much easier because that’s valuable.

Okay. So we have a meeting next week. This is the last one where we will discuss this. So you will all do some thinking please on what that structure could look like that includes writing and speaking and conversing. and then we will stop these weekly conversations, have a workshop, and open it up again in this new format, probably under the same title, but new format.